Talk:Brobdingnagian Teratoid Tarrasque
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[edit] The Mammon Machine
Lavos becomes much, much weaker after the Mammon Machine is destroyed - weak enough that Crono et al. can kill it. These stats, I assume, are for the world-destroying Lavos powered by the Mammon Machine in 10,000 B.C. and 2300 AD?
- Probably. This Lavos can withstand crashing into the earth with great enough force to cause the extinction of the reptites and cause an ice ages that lasts millenia. This Lavos is also capable of wasting the surface of the planet. Perhaps one explanation is that the Mammon Machine was syphoning Lavos's power, and while the machine still stood, Lavos could make use of the distilled power just as well as the Zealians could, but was weakened significantly when it was destroyed. The other explanation is that a creature that does the things Lavos is described to be able to do is in fact unbeatable, and artistic liscence was used for Chrono et all. Take your pick. Fieari 05:23, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Defeating Lavos
Of course, that assumes that your party is made entirely of fighters and barbarians. Any party with a spellcaster should be able to handle "Lavos" about as easily as they handle a regular Tarrasque, since this monster still has all the Tarrasque's basic weaknesses, such as the inability to fly, plane shift, teleport, or do much of anything against PCs with greater mobility.
It should go without saying that any epic spellcaster who has bothered to read the epic spellcasting rules should be able to defeat "Lavos" trivially.
If you use enough splatbooks, though, a kobold can solo it at level 5. A number of other builds can solo it before level 20. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=551709 --Posted Anonymously on the main page
- I take objection to these observations, and will counter them point by point. First of all is the fact that epic spells all allow for Spell Resistance, and Lavos' is insanely high. So Epic Level spells aren't going to help very much.
- Even without the "Manifest DNA" ability, Lavos' Jump ability is nearly (but not quite) sufficient to enable self-propelled orbital velocities. This means that it can jump as high as you can fly, and stand on a cloud while it's at it. Even without jumping, it has a two-mile reach, which means you need to fly two miles above it just to be out of RANGE. Much higher than that, and you're suffering radiation damage, vaccume damage, and suffication (granted, there are means to survive the suffication when you're level 20).
- I will grant that Pun Pun can take Lavos on, but Pun Pun is an Infinite Loop build, which means the rules are broken in that regard. Pun Pun is not actually going to exist, anywhere.
- Teleporting PCs will still have to find a way to bring damage to Lavos. Remember: Spells aren't going to cut it. Most damaging spell types (lines, rays, etc) simply CAN'T effect Lavos, and all others have to deal with a Spell Resistance that no 20th level character can beat. If no Spell Resistance is allowed, than there's going to be a saving throw involved, and looky there. Lavos wins again! Those saving throws are insanely high.
- Even if you have a no SR, no Saving Throw spell (ranged touch attack, I guess, which definitely can be hit... so long as you can make a ranged touch attack from more than two miles away) you still need to deal sufficient damage. Remember, Lavos has an insane regen rate. And that's regen. You have to deal an incredible amount of non-lethal damage, and then...
- Get this...
- Cast a Wish with sufficient CL in order to get past its spell resistance.
- You still can't win.
- I still maintain that for any reasonable interpretation of the rules, Lavos is an impossible encounter for anything below level 256, and that might not be enough.
- Fieari 00:48, 17 Dec 2005 (UTC)
[edit] DR 15/epic
no, it isn't... they are separate distinctions; DR 15/Epic is irrelevant with a higher DR/- source --Anonymous Comment moved from main article
- Lavos's DR /-- comes from its many Damage Reduction feats. The SRD reads:
- Benefit: The character gains damage reduction 3/-. This does not stack with damage reduction granted by magic items or nonpermanent magical effects, but it does stack with any damage reduction granted by permanent magical effects, class features, or this feat itself.
- I read this to mean that Lavos has two layers of DR, of different types, that do in fact stack. So an epic weapon bypasses the tarrasque's natural DR 15/epic... but then the Damage Reduction feat kicks in, which can't be bypassed by weapons. Fieari 21:45, 12 Jan 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Knowledge Check for Allip trick
limiting a players options to a chance is rather ridiculous. Demanding a knowledge check to attempt a tactic is simply assinine; attempt and guaranteed knowledge of success are entirely different things. As such, a character who routinely employs ability damage tactics should attempt such; a party who has tried everything else should be able to attempt such. --Anonymous comment moved from main page.
- Rediculous you say? But it's 100% Rules As Written... the knowledge checks are there so you can clearly seperate metagame knowledge from in character knowledge. I can understand not liking the RAW, but that's how it was written... Fieari 21:47, 12 Jan 2006 (UTC)
[edit] The True Challenge
The greatest bragging rights come not in destroying this thing, but controlling it. I'm sure a Mindbender could manage it, if he can bypass the +3076 will save. Imagine riding that sucker!
// Tiejaz 4.58pm Friday 9 March 2007
[edit] Speaking of astronomical...
How much energy would it take (teratons of TNT or terajoules) to launch it into space past the point of return? Could some kind of reverse gravity spell (telekinesis?) be cast with the terrain underfoot as the target? I envision a combination of those two efforts, with a subsequent effort to send it into the sun (sun equivalent?). I suspect this would suffice to kill it? Or could it survive on the surface of the sun? Still a big challenge to pull off, and one that might involve a Knowledge (arcana) check or checks.
[edit] This is meant to be Lavos?
Am I the only one who thinks that these are horribly inaccurate Lavos stats? I don't remember Lavos swallowing people or goring them with its horns. For crying out loud, one of the strategies to beat this thing involves covering it with quintessence, which the real Lavos should be immune to!
[edit] This is the scariest tarrasque I have seen!!!
And I have seen a lot. Say, the 30-headed version at [1], or one that I made, with about a zillion templates capped off with monstrous vampire. All I can say is: I'm glad my DM wouldn't toss this at us.
Not without about a million "death star super-laser" epic spells (proposed at A'tuin the Star Turtle ) and a similar number of wishes, anyways.
But, I fear A'tuin the Star Turtle much more!
72.69.9.119 13:12, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Lavos's Loss?!?!
All you lavos-loving fools, see how A'tuin rocks at A'tuin vs. Lavos-one of my pages!
72.69.9.119 13:48, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
